If You’re a Web Developer, Your Skills Are Inferior to Other Professional’s Skills
How many times have you had a client come to you and say “I want my site to look just like [insert any well designed site here], and I can pay you $200 to do it.”? Thanks, but no thanks.
I’m a member at quite a few forums, e.g., SitePoint Forums, Website Publisher Forums, The Blog Experiment Forums and have been around the web for more than few years now and there is no shortage of topics discussing why design clients are always looking to get a Ferrari, but only willing to pay an amount that will get them a used Honda.
So I ask, why is a web developer so inferior to other professions? Why will you expect a web developer to work on peanuts yet pay a car mechanic $75 an hour or more and think nothing of it? What makes a web developer any different?
Hopefully I can make an attempt to answer these questions with this article and explain why I don’t do much design work anymore for anyone other than myself.
Cost of Entry is Low
Being a web developer these days is easy, right? All you need is a copy of Microsoft Paint (comes standard with Windows) and a copy of Microsoft Frontpage and you’re all of a sudden you’re a web developer. If I want to be a doctor, I can’t go to Wal-Mart and pick up a Fisher Price Medical Kit and all of a sudden be a doctor, yet this is essentially what a lot of “developers” are doing these days. They are picking up the Fisher Price equivalent in design tools and calling themselves web developers. It’s perfectly legal to do this and you won’t get thrown in jail like you would if you posed as a Medical Doctor, but that doesn’t change the fact that you should be thrown in jail, web developer jail! 
Most People Have No Idea What Goes Into Developing a Site
Granted, if the client only wants a basic design of 5-10 static pages, then yes, $200 is probably a fair price. For a very basic 10 page site, it would probably take around 5 hours. That’s assuming the client doesn’t want a totally custom design and doesn’t need any custom graphics (logo, header, icons, etc.) designed. If all we’re dealing with is text and colors, that’s fine, $200 is not unreasonable and would work out to be $40 an hour or so, which I think is a fair price. The problem starts when clients have no concept of what goes into a heavily customized site. It takes time to gather ideas, plan, design (custom site design, logo, and icons), code, redesign/recode (if client has any changes), and finally test to make sure it all works like it’s suppose to work. When you start developing custom solutions, it’s not unusual to work in excess of 60 hours on one site. If you do the math on that, working 60 hours for $200 comes out to be about $3.33 an hour. I’m betting that if I walked into the client’s office and asked them to work at the same rate, it won’t fly.
There again, it gets back to my first point, the cost of entry is low, so many people view web design like they view flipping burgers at the local McDonald’s. They don’t see the skill and time involved because seemingly anyone can do it. I mean, who doesn’t have a friend that has a son that does web design and he can do a whole site for $50? That’s when I tell the client to let their friend’s son do the work for them, I’ll be here to fix it at a reasonable rate when they’re not satisfied.
Things Will Change Soon
Okay, it may not be soon, as in tomorrow, but it will be sometime in the future that we see a change in the way web professionals are looked at and compensated. As the Internet advances, so does the technology that drives it and the average consumer continues to become even more aware of things like web standards, accessibility, and usability. We’ve already seen a major corporation in a class action lawsuit because their site was not fully accessible to the visually impaired.
I’m guessing we’ll see this trend continue and as more people are taken to court over their web presence. The days of the “friend of a friend who has a son that designs sites” will be on the way out. Consumers needing a web presence will be hiring professional developers that know what they’re doing and understand how to develop a site so that it adheres to certain standards instead of simply taking the cheapest option.
Remember, in the web game, the old saying rings true, you normally get what you pay for.
Share Your Thoughts
I’m not really sure where I was going with this post, but it was something TJ and I had a short discussion about the other day over an IM session, so I thought I’d share my thoughts. 
So, now it’s your turn to share your thoughts below in the comments!
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Comments
Nice write up. This is something that I’ve been thinking about for a while too. I’m starting to think that maybe we need some sort of globally recognised qualifications award body for web professionals.
It wouldn’t be easy to organise, there’d be many potential pitfalls, but with the right approach and the right focus I think it could help make the industry more professional and give people outside of the industry more confidence that it is worth paying for people who are good.
Posted on Wed Oct 17, 2007
I think it’s important for all designers not to turn their service into a commodity. Don’t compete with those who almost give their designs away. Quality sells.
Nice post, Deron.
Posted on Wed Oct 17, 2007
Luckily most people that I work with/for have been recommended by another client and they don’t tend to question my prices. I try to ensure I don’t drop them just to make someone happy and snag a client, especially when the cheaper sites end up taking the most time.
All of my quotes go out with additional information such as ‘site build to WAI Priority Level 2 to conform with the disability discrimination act’ which is what is required for any business site by law in the UK. I think information like that is vital to making businesses aware of what legalities they need to follow.
I know what we produce is good stuff, we attend meetings around the country when needed, always available to talk on the phone or by email, and I think we offer a service that a ‘son of a friend’ or a nephew can’t offer, the ability to be available during the day and not stuck in Science class 
The minute I know that we’re not the only business offering a quote I don’t bother. I’ve got enough work and stress to not concern myself with competing with some teenage business that can’t spell correctly.
As for some legal requirements, I think once more sites are taken to court or at least warned over their accessibility issues then more businesses will start to take notice. But until this happens then it takes a lot of explaining as to why businesses need to take the right steps now.
Posted on Wed Oct 17, 2007
Brian: Well, sometimes (not all) the “son of the friend” does know what they’re doing (in your case) as far as designing but the problem comes in when they are inexperienced as far as the business aspect of it all. Poorly designed websites don’t bother me, but poor designers who pass off their skills as “professional” bother me. Honestly the average consumer is usually ignorant when it comes to websites and they have no idea what they are getting for their $50 until someone hopefully explains it to them.
James: That’s a great idea, in theory. I’m just not sure how it would work and how you could stop people from gaming the system. I’m afraid that it would turn into something like the “Microsoft Certified Professional” banner that you see a lot of websites displaying. Really, being a “Microsoft Certified Professional” means nothing. Sure, you can go take a class, read a book, and pass a test, but how does that really make you a “professional?”
If you come up with any ideas on how to really start something like that, look me up, I’m all for it and I’ll help however I can.
David: Thanks! Yeah, you can’t compete with those that give away their services so it’s best to not even try. In the end, the consumer will usually go with the cheaper price tag, so it’s not worth the effort to try and explain to them why your services are better, but they are $x,xxx more. All the consumer sees is the extra zeros attached to the end of that number.
Sarah: Yeah, good points. You are definitely right about the cheaper “easy” sites taking the most time. I’ve heard it I don’t know how many times. Someone needs a basic site and the request list just continues to grow into a monster.
I know what we produce is good stuff, we attend meetings around the country when needed, always available to talk on the phone or by email
That’s great and I can see it being a great asset to your business. Being available is invaluable. I know first hand the great work that you do, so I would assume your clients are very pleased and will continue to come back for a long time.
Posted on Wed Oct 17, 2007
The thing is, if a web designer makes a mistake in his work, he’ll usually fix it for free. Most mechanics will charge you again to fix their mistake! At least, that’s my experience.
I don’t know what my future holds, but if you’re good at what you do, and confident that your abilities and skills are of a high standard, then don’t be afraid to value you them, and place an appropriate price on them.
Posted on Wed Oct 17, 2007
Armen: Yes, I’ve had the same experiences with mechanics. They mess up and the consumer gets to pay the labor costs for them to fix it.
I agree though, if you’re confident in your abilities and you have the ability to push out a great product, then you shouldn’t be afraid to place an appropriate price tag on your ability.
There is the other side of the fence though. The ones that actually put out a good product, but charge less than they should, e.g., http://www.sosfactory.net/. If you ask me, for the quality of work they do, they could get much more than they currently charge, but these people are few and far between.
Posted on Wed Oct 17, 2007
Ah.
I got’cha now.
That does annoy me too - but it did come to my advantage once.
Not too long ago, when my design skills were… how shall I say it… not as good as they are now, I got a job from someone who didn’t want to spend a lot of money for a ‘good’ web site - but simply wanted a web presence.
As I look back, I gag at what I did for that poor man… But hey, I got about $300 out of it, and he’s happy.
Posted on Wed Oct 17, 2007
Loving the discussion here!
From my point of view, I think it comes down to “that other dude says he can do it for $200 less than you’re charging”, and I’ve been that person in a number of situations.
But as you correctly point out, that “other dude” probably won’t spend the most amount of time on your concept, he may not follow legal legislation, and he may not be on call 24/7, unlike Sarah and most other web developers.
But unfortunately for you designers, most of us purchasers look only at the price, and this is something that I’m gradually changing in myself. I know that if I want a decent job (most times) I need to pay higher.
Maybe it’s about time that the developers did something else to market their work. It’s all very well seeing a Portfolio of other people’s work when you’re looking to purchase, but what can you offer me that will make me choose you, even though you’re more expensive than the other dude?
I don’t think that developers will be able to get rid of “the guy who does templates at $50 a pop”, but they must find a different way of beating that guy out of competition, so his prices don’t seem to constantly undercut theirs.
Hope this comments made sense anyway Great post.
Posted on Thu Oct 18, 2007
Adnan:
From my point of view, I think it comes down to “that other dude says he can do it for $200 less than you’re charging”, and I’ve been that person in a number of situations.
I don’t look at that type of situation as a real problem in the industry. I mean, if I quote someone $1000 and then they come back and say they’ve found someone to do it for $800 and ask what I want to do, I may match the $800 depending on how busy I am with other stuff. But what really hurts the industry is when the professional developers actually know what goes into developing a site and they are quoting people $1000 or whatever (and it’s reasonable for the time they put in) and then you get some other guy that jumps in and throws his quote of $200 out there which is $800 less than the original quote, it’s hard to compete with that. The problem is that the guys who are charging $200 or whatever for their work, just don’t know any better. Sure you can get a site developed from them and it will probably work, but it may be poorly designed, not standards compliant, not accessible, and not very usable. If that’s what the consumer is after, then by all means, go for the low ball quote.
I think that’s what Sarah is referring to when she says that if she knows another quote is out on the table she drops out of the competition. 1. she has no way of knowing if the client actually received another quote or if it’s just them trying to get a discount. 2. it’s just to hard to compete with price even when the product you’re putting out is of better quality. So the best option is to just drop out of the competition, because it’s really not worth the effort. I know what you’re saying about the developer marketing their work in a better more appealing way as to persuade the consumer to them opposed to the other guy, but it all comes back around to price and no matter what I do to market my work, price will always win unless you’re just dealing with a big company where price isn’t an object. And that’s why you’ll see designers/developers drop out of the competition when there are other quotes on the table, it’s just not worth it.
Now, don’t get me wrong, there are two sides to this spectrum. The other side is the developers who charge and arm and a leg for their work but really aren’t that good. Both sides contribute to the web developer being looked at as inferior to other professional work. As soon as a consumer receives below par work for an above average price they instantly pin all web developers in the same category and that’s charging to much for what they do.
I think it can go one of two ways from here. You’ll either start to see a shift toward consumers hiring only professionals to do the work and paying them what they deserve because as the web advances the average person becomes more aware of the accessibility guidelines that should be followed and they become more aware of what actually goes into developing a site or you could see it go the other way and all developers start charging very low to just get the business and simply just not caring what quality their deliverable has so they can just get work.
Thanks for your thoughts Adnan
Posted on Thu Oct 18, 2007
Love the comparison to a mechanic. You’re right on with this post. I’ll be sending it to an aspiring web designer friend of mine.
Posted on Thu Oct 18, 2007
Chuck: Thanks for stopping by. Glad you liked the comparison. Yeah, definitely. Tell your aspiring web designer friend to stop on by.
Posted on Thu Oct 18, 2007
To be honest, if I see competition for work I drop out because I can’t be bothered. As bad as it sounds I actually have so much work on that I don’t want any more! Pretty much all of my work comes from word of mouth recommendations. Even today I’ve been in London at a meeting with a new client via an existing one, their comment to me was that they’ve not asked anyone else for a quote as they know that we’ll do the job right for them. It’s nice to hear and thankfully they appreciate the wealth of information we can give to them, explain to them etc.
Posted on Thu Oct 18, 2007
Sarah: Well, that’s a good reason too Sarah. A reason I’m sure many people would love to be able to say they can use for dropping out of contention with a potential client. You do great work, so it’s no surprise to me.
Sorry if I sounded as if I was putting words in your mouth with my assumption.
Posted on Fri Oct 19, 2007
No problem Sometimes some people think I’m mad when I don’t want too much work, will actually say ‘No’ if I’m not interested. Once I had Guiness phone me (by mistake) asking for a website, but I realised they’d got me confused with another, larger company. Everyone thought I was mad to not play along and try and get the job, but do you think I can deal with the stress that would come with it?! I’d rather enjoy my job that stress over it!
Posted on Fri Oct 19, 2007
Sarah: hehehe, I must say, I think I would have played along just to see where it went gave them a ridiculously high quote just to see if they’d bite (because you know they aren’t hurting for money). If not,no harm done.
I would imagine it would have been a lot of stress though. A LOT.
Posted on Fri Oct 19, 2007
Hey Deron, Great write up. I’m glad someone had time to discuss this. I might even do a post on this as well since we talked about it.
I really think people underestimate the cost of websites and more because it isn’t something tangible they can actually grab hold of if you know what I mean. It is very similar to how so many people steal music on the internet but those same people wouldn’t go into the store and start shoving CDs down their pockets.
Once again, glad to hear you posted about it.
Posted on Mon Oct 29, 2007
TJ: Hey, glad to see you stopped by! Yeah you’re right. Many people have a hard time grasping things in which they cannot physically handle.
You’re right, people will steal music on the internet, but wouldn’t think about walking into a store and stuffing their pockets. Same could be said for other things like software.
I guess that’s where we’re suppose to coming and explain to the client how much time this stuff takes sometimes. It’s not drag and drop we’re dealing with (although I know that’s what a lot of client think).
Yeah do a write up for sure. I’d love to check it out.
Posted on Mon Oct 29, 2007
As a disabled web designer m’self, I don’t like the organisation of the WCAG priorities and standards. When I found my company, Accessibility Assholes, Inc., I’ll emphasise that accessibility can’t be boxed nor is everything checkable. For example, many CAPTCHAs have a blank alt attribute which would probably go unnoticed by a WCAG-checking robot, but it compromises the accessibility of the site *drastically*. Same goes with CSS and the contrast standard. Different strokes for different folks.
Though I’ve seriously been doing this for about 8 years, with the last few with a serious focus on web standards, and NEVER for pay, I would feel apprehensive about starting up a design company because I am not patient with cheap people.
Posted on Sat Nov 3, 2007
Bobby: Thanks for the comment. I do know a little about accessibility, but admit I’m not an total expert on the topic. The the image captchas that I had previously, I actually never even thought to include the alt attribute. I don’t know why I didn’t think about it, all of my other images have alt attributes, but for some reason that one just didn’t even cross my mind. I’m glad you recommended the accessible captchas to me. I want to make every site I develop as accessible as possible and had you not pointed it out I would would still be doing the same thing.
Thanks for stopping by.
Posted on Sat Nov 3, 2007
I would say that a professional Web Developer (who wanted to focus on stuff like accessibility) wouldn’t rely on a robot to determine whether their pages passed the threshold.
When we check over pages (although naturally most is dealt with during development anyway) they’re checked manually. The only ‘checker’ that is used is to determine the quality score of contrast, which from what I’ve see is pretty strict.
As for Captchas, we don’t like using those anyway. I’ve only added one and I used the sum type as I figured that was the most international and easiest.
Bobby, you’d be best off setting up as a consultant to development agencies. You seem to know your stuff and plenty of agencies don’t! I’ve seen people charge a lot just to produce a report on what’s wrong with a site. With the way the laws are going you could potentially make a killing
Deron, a good book on accessibility if you want to read more is Web Accessibility: Web Standards and Regulatory Compliance (ISBN 1590596382), which we’ve got and it seems pretty comprehensive, plus it has a section that covers rules and regs in major countries too.
Posted on Sun Nov 4, 2007
SarahG: Yeah I agree Sarah, Bobby could make a killing doing accessibility consulting.
Thanks for the book recommendation, I’ll definitely be checking it out! I love new books!
Posted on Sun Nov 4, 2007
Nice article Deron. I think most of the time it comes down to ignorance. They don’t know what is involved, and they think a cheaper option is equivalent to a higher-priced option (which I guess is possible in some cases).
Posted on Sun Nov 4, 2007
Agreed, the end-user is totally ignorant as to what’s involved in designing a quality website. And that term “quality” can mean many things to many people.
I see the same trend in IT when companies think that buying a $350 Costco-brand home desktop computer with the most minimum of features is just as capable and equivalent to a $1500 professional business-class desktop workstation. Logging into a corporate domain on Windows XP Home? Ehh, who needs to spend the extra money for that! </sarcasm>
Same ideas hold true for websites. In my experiences, they dont take good design seriously because they don’t see the value in it. The trick is getting these clients to see the errors of their ways - which is often next-to-impossible!
Great write-up Deron!
Posted on Tue Nov 6, 2007
Steven: Yeah, you’re definitely right. It comes down to ignorance, but the bad thing is that even though it’s their ignorance, they have to much price to admit they are ignorant about the subject and want to act like they know what they’re talking about when discussion the product. I never understood why someone would hire a “professional” to do something for them and then give them advice while they’re trying to do what they were hired to do? I mean, if my electric is out, I don’t try to tell the electrician what’s right and how he should reconnect my electric.
Evan: Yes, it truly is amazing sometimes. As you may know I work in IT at my full time job and deal with hardware and software issues everyday and each and every day presents new interesting situations to say the least.
Yes, getting a client who wants a website that looks like it was pulled from 1995 to see the error in their ways? haha, right. I mean, who wouldn’t want a big neon green 25px high separator bar that is animated on their site? I know I would!
Posted on Tue Nov 6, 2007
Haha, that’s right!
Ooh, don’t forget the animated black and yellow contruction tape - can’t forget that!
I too work for in IT at my full-time job and know exactly what you’re talking about. I have a client who still uses Wordperfect on DOS and wonders why he cannot exchange documents with others in his office!
Posted on Tue Nov 6, 2007
Evan: Ah gosh, I always forget that! I need to remember to add it on the sites I’m working on! That way people will now it’s under construction. I mean, what else are people suppose to think if they navigate to the page and see a half finished site?
Ehhh, I hate WordPerfect! I get so tired of explaining why my users cannot open a WordPerfect document. Although sometimes it does work if you manually select the doc to open in Word.
Posted on Wed Nov 7, 2007
Couldn’t agree more! I work freelance and sometimes people get the impression that you’re desperate enough to take anything they’d be willing to offer you.Even $200-300 for a website that would require 2 weeks’ worth of designing and coding.
I used to try and make them understand that great work is never cheap work, but now I don’t waste as much time as I used to in order to change people.I simply present them the clear facts, great work = decent pay or mediocre work but from someone else other than me.
Some people will forever be cheapskates no matter how much a designer or developer will try to educate them.
Posted on Sun Nov 11, 2007
Gia Bercea: Yeah, it’s very annoying. By wanting you to design some awesome site for $200, a client is basically telling you that your time isn’t worth squat them. I’m sure that’s not how they mean it cause they are just looking for the best deal, but that’s how it comes across.
I think you’re definitely on the right track to educating your clients and trying to help them understand that this sort of stuff is much more than just drag and drop and that you can’t whip up a youtube or digg clone in two hours. lol.
Thanks for stopping by.
Posted on Mon Nov 12, 2007
Very good article, good arguments. I agree on all levels. I find people to think that since we work on the computer and not a “real” job, it’s not as hard or as important. Good post.
Posted on Sat Dec 1, 2007
ninja.s Yeah, I agree. Eventually I think it will get to a point that anyone that doesn’t work on a computer will be looked upon as not have a “real” job. Technology is definitely here to stay.
Posted on Thu Dec 6, 2007
Hello Deron, very good points in your article and really nice discussion, just my 2 cents:
1º.- Internet is a global market, what you think is cheap, is a fortune for asian companies… you cant send your car to Asia to get it repaired but you can order webdesign.
We cant work cheaper, impossible… so lets work better.
2º.- I believe in the natural evolution of any startup company. Like you said I work cheap (www.sosfactory.com) but I think this: If I do a good work I will have more and more clients, since my demand is raising, I can raise my prices. 4 years ago I charged 30US$ per logo, now I charge from 250 to 500US$... in 4 years Im sure I will be very well paid.
What I mean… is not bad charging low if you offer good quality, in the long term is a good strategy. The one degrading the industry are the outsourcing companies who do garbage at cheap prices, they get a fortune while his designers are starving.
3º.- Freelances vs big corporations. I work from home, I have no too expenses, so if I charge 35US$/h its very profitable for me. I live in Spain where designer in design agencies earn 1400US$/month.
4º.- I think the world is big enough for everybody, even for “fast food” companies. There are big costumers hoping to spend good money and small users who want cheap designs. We just have to focuse our business in the right direction.
5º.- The “educating to the client” argument annoy me, if I spend that time on educating people I wouldnt have time to design. If you dont appreciatte my work, Im not interested in working for you. Obviously I had to work hard long time before getting that status… if you are starting you need a thick skin.
Conclusion: instead of thinking how to put walls to the sea, lets focuse in doing good designs… the fact is… in the long term, quality sells.
Cheers!
Sergio
PS: sorry if my english is not too good
Posted on Sun Feb 3, 2008
Hi Deron, seen you on EE forums…
Re cheap sites where “the request list just continues to grow into a monster.”
Yeah, some folks will always try it on, the trick is managing them and their expectations! The following may help get your clients/projects in order and stop you getting stuffed ...
Never start the job until the client has signed the schedule and understands exactly what they’ll get for that. Break it down into timings that are realistic and for requests that are outside the scope of the current contract don’t be cheap, say OK, if you’ll sign off on X more hours. Possibly add it to a Phase 2 list if you think it’s all getting out of hand. If they can’t afford what they want right now, try and downsize the schedule - maybe they can leave that shopping cart until they’ve outgrown their Paypal buttons? Get any verbal agreements about timings & money in an email / hard copy so they’re accountable. Get a good chunk (33-50%) of the fee upfront - it makes them commit to their own site and hopefully they’ll hurry up and give you some bl**dy content to work with.
When you’re getting request after request by email it can be hard to keep track of tasks and progress - we’ve found that using Google docs is really helpful - keep a spreadsheet for the project with columns for: page/section, task, requested by whom, scope (phase 1, 2, bugfix, retainer etc.), responibility (you/them), ETA, time taken, and status (done, awating content etc). It takes a little time to set up but saves in the long run.
Having this list will show you how much time you’re spending on the project and whether they’re being too demanding - and is ammunition if you want to keep them as a client and want to suggest they pay you a monthly retainer, as you can invite them to see the doc too. It’s shown us that one of our clients had already used twice their monthly retainer hours, so we asked them for more £££ and they agreed, as we had proof that was plain to see.
If you’ve done the work and they don’t want to pay - there’s a good Sitepoint article here, “For Sale: Debt Collection Made Easy”
http://www.sitepoint.com/newsletter/viewissue.php?id=2&issue=384
good hunting, everyone!
Posted on Mon Feb 4, 2008
Sergio: Thanks for stopping by! I’m a huge fan of your work. It’s outstanding.
Yes, you’re right about what’s cheap here, might be a fortune somewhere else in the world. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been contacted about a logo design and am told the budget is $25. I’m sorry, but unless you just want some basic text with a nice gradient effect or something, $25 is completely unreasonable. As much as I have to keep in mind that $25 is expensive elsewhere, others should keep in mind that it’s pennies here. So, like you said, the only resolution is the continue to move forward by doing good work.
On point number two, I get what you’re saying, but I’m not sure I fully agree with it. In my opinion, your work is second to none. Really, it’s amazing. I honestly think you don’t charge enough now. I think if what you’re offering is great quality, you’re only hurting yourself by charging low. The only problem is, with a lot of people that design websites and logos, they don’t know what is “quality” themselves. They think what they’re doing is quality, when it’s actually not.
Wow, living on $1400 a month? That’s just not possible where I live and I don’t even live in a very high cost of living location.
Yes, you’re probably right in that the world is big enough for everyone. The only thing I see is the people doing bad work and charging a higher than average price for their bad work. Nine times out of 10, the client doesn’t know any better. So, they are paying a premium for this work, when they could spend the same amount of money and get someone else to do the work better.
I agree too. You shouldn’t have to educate the client on what is good and what is not. It’s their job to do research and figure out what they’re looking for and who’s the best at delivering what they need. If I quote them and they think it’s to high, I should shop there. No hard feelings, it’s just business.
You’re right though, the only thing we can do is continue to try to develop quality designs and try not to worry about the things we can’t control. The only thing that really aggravates me with this whole topic is knowing that when a client comes to you looking for a design and they are only looking to pay, say $200 for something that clearly will take quite a while to develop. At that point, you’re working for pennies. I can guarantee you, that same client, whatever line of work they may be in, will not work for that same amount per hour. If they are a mechanic, doctor, dentist, or whatever, and they need a site developed that will end up paying you around $3 and hour based on what they want to charge and how long it will take, no way will they themselves work for that cheap. Although it’s for whatever reason expected of web designers/developers because it’s seemings so simple that anyone can do it.
Anyway, thanks for stopping by Sergio. I really appreciate your insights on this. Keep up the good work.
By the way, what do you use for your illustrations? Do you draw with pencil/paper first and then scan into Illustrator and start to digitize them?
Posted on Mon Feb 4, 2008
Smithy: Thanks for stopping by! Always glad to see fellow EE users around here.
I really like the idea of using Google docs spreadsheets to list how long each phase of the project is taking. It would really be helpful to the client to see where their money is going and how long it actually takes to do some of this stuff and that it does involve a little more than just loading up FrontPage and whipping up a site in a hour.
Thanks for the link at SitePoint, I’ll definitely be sure to check that out. It’s been a while since I stopped by there.
Posted on Mon Feb 4, 2008
Hello again Deron, thanks a lot, Im glad you like it.
I think everybody would like to charge more, but if you have no clients… its hard starting.
I use Photoshop for bitmaps and Illustrator for vectors, for the lineart I usually start rough on paper, then I retouch it in Photoshop, when its ok my partner ink it on paper and then I tweak it with Photoshop again… so we mix both traditional and digital drawing.
I did some tutorials for SOSNewbie, my blog:
Vectorial Illustration with Illustrator
Video Tutorial for Digial Color with Photoshop
Keep writing good posts
Sergio
Posted on Mon Feb 4, 2008
That’s pretty pathetic for website developers. I will not accept such offer if it does not compensate the effort i am exerting. Imagine you’ll spend a lot of time and energy.
Posted on Tue Feb 5, 2008
Sergio: Very true. You could be the best designer in the world but if no clients want your service, it’s hard setting a higher price tag on what you offer.
The whole starting out on paper and then retouching in Photoshop is one area that I don’t have experience with. I’ve never really understood how to draw something on paper, scan it and then colorize it and touch it up in Photoshop. I can never get it to work.
I’ll definitely be checking out those tutorials! Thanks for posting them.
Lena the Thinker: Yeah, a lot of time and energy is lost if your performing a service, but being grossly underpaid for the service. If you cannot live on what you’re being paid, something has to change.
Posted on Fri Feb 8, 2008
People never understand the terminology: you get what you pay for.
Same applies when it comes ot mechanics. Dodgy ones work for next to nothing, the good ones work well because they get paid well.
Posted on Tue Feb 12, 2008
David:Yes, you’re very right. In very rare situations you find someone great at what they do for an affordable price, but generally, you get what you pay for no matter what area of business.
Posted on Tue Feb 12, 2008
My best friend is a Web Developer and seems to be constantly frustrated by this very problem. From my non-techie standpoint it would appear that small and medium sized businesses still don’t understand the real potential of the Web but in my humble opinion this will change over time.
Posted on Wed Apr 23, 2008
Helen: Thanks for stopping by and taking time to comment. Yes, I think it’s a consistent thing you hear from every person in the design/developer world. I definitely agree. Small and medium sized businesses and some large businesses for that matter don’t understand the power of the web and how things are changing. Eventually they will have to embrace the power or get left behind, because like it or not, that’s where everything is heading.
Posted on Wed Apr 23, 2008
I do a lot of sites with very heavy programming behind them - essentially commercial apps running in a browser. Clients will pay for that because they understand that programming costs money, but for design work they seem to think it’s just painting by numbers.
Posted on Sat Jul 5, 2008
Yorkshire Lad: Yeah, for some reason it seems like development/programming work is more accepted when a hire quote is thrown out there. Everyone knows that programming is hard work and it takes a lot of time to be good at it. Designing just isn’t looked at in the same light I guess.
Posted on Wed Jul 9, 2008
I being as web designer I think myself some times that designing is sometimes is a painful. I am a web designer and I have some bad experiences while designing a websites. So many times I try to learn PHP , JavaScript and other language but then again slips way or lots of project come on my way. The suddenly I start SEO work. But I have seen some brilliant web developers who enjoy developing and developing it’s a painful work. My two brothers are web developers I see them working all night and all day developing scripts, application etc….
But I still think web developer has edge over designers
Posted on Tue Aug 12, 2008
Dubai Web Design: Thanks for your insight! Yeah, a lot of developers work long hours programming where designers generally don’t do that. I’ve tried to learn PHP in the past as well and didn’t have much luck doing so either, so don’t feel bad.
Posted on Tue Aug 12, 2008
Another aspect of web design price wars you might want to throw in here is that web design can be (relatively) easily outsourced to the most remote corner of the globe where $3.33/hr may actually earn you a good living. So, if the client is willing to look around (the globe), they are guaranteed to find a good enough designer for less.
Well, with all that said, conveying your wishes to someone not speaking your language well may be a challenge in its own right so it is of course not so straightforward. Still the general rule will always be that the job that cannot be outsourced will always fetch more. Web design is NOT one of those.
Posted on Tue Mar 17, 2009
Seeing this thread still active since ‘07 PROVES how true it really is ... which is unfortunate.
Posted on Tue Mar 17, 2009
@Scriptster - Very valid points. With the internet, web design definitely isn’t one of those jobs you mention that cannot be outsourced. Although, today it seems like any job can be outsourced in some fashion to save money but web design moreso than others. It’s so easy to contact someone online, have them do the work, and never even have to see them face to face.
@Evan - Wow. I cannot even believe I wrote this article that long enough. Definitely doesn’t feel like it. And, you’re right.
Posted on Tue Mar 17, 2009
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My name is Deron Sizemore and I am a web designer, web publisher, blogger and serial internet entrepreneur living in Lexington, Kentucky.
I think you nailed it.
I like the car mechanic comparison - very nice…
If users want a quality site, they have to pay for it!
That is something I have run into a little - though I am currently the “friend of a friend who has a son that designs sites.” However, I am moving out of that - though I haven’t gotten a job to prove that yet…
Poorly designed web sites agitate me so much!
One of the things that makes it hard though, is finding a good designer. Sure, you can do a Google search and find zillions, but are they good designers?
I’ve actually just started a project (as of a few days ago) to change that. But, I’m not quite ready to announce it yet - I’ll be doing a blog post about it within a week or so (I think…).
Posted on Tue Oct 16, 2007